The Gospels & The Q Source Dr. Robert M. Price
The Gospels & The Q Source Dr. Robert M. Price
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One on one with Dr. Robert M. Price 👉 jemi.app/robert.m.price
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I have a theory which I don’t think anyone had the cajones to bring up that the first century temple was a mystery school for astrologers etc., and it would explain why the menorah is a Sephira tree and why every single synagogue unearthed dating to the first century has zodiac mosaics in them.
I also don’t see the need for any Q source because it seems to me the Greek Jewish Scholars were just modernizing their older myths. A myth is a form of delivering a true concept, myths of old were not just fiction. As with the liver we know today that this is the only organ that regenerates, as in the myth of ? what’s his name.
Price’s eyebrows are getting formidable
It’s not pronounced "septoolagent"
It’s Sep-to-a-gint.
What ‘Greek Novel’ is Dr. Price paraphrasing? Is it available or part of a collection?
Derek, I hear your internal struggle to find out if Jesus literally existed or whether he existed as myth. Yours is the struggle of the everyman. In the end, It really doesn’t matter psychologically to the eternal human condition if Jesus literally existed in time and space, or whether he existed as an always true metaphor. What matters is how we find meaning when we interact with all the archetypes that make up the Jesus myth. Life, Death, Resurrection, Sacrifice, Love are all archetypes that we as people engage with all the time. These immaterial ideas are what give our subconscious a sense of meaning. All of us act out our lives like God exists through our deeply held values.
It drives me mad that Bart Erhmen counting Q along with M, M and L as 3 separate evidences of the existence of Jesus. Can some one explain to me if they came from Q how he can say there are 4 evidences when either Q is the evidence (that we don’t know actually existed) or M, M and L can only count as 1 evidence if they all copied each other. Do you get me? It’s puzzling me.
Again my favorite atheist Dr. Robert price! Love to listen to him thank you for hosting him again
For Jesus not to exist there sure are countless books written concerning Him. Yes, i know this statement does not originate with me yet it is a true statement and critically thinking people will do thus so.
Dear god Derek. Water board me but don’t keep saying “septoo-lagent “. Good show though , keep up the good work
Interesting how I suddenly realized after all these years, when I heard Dr. Price mention Jesus praying in the garden, that Jesus’ prayer was a one way affair. Jesus spoke to God, but God did not answer with words. God spoke with Adam & Eve, Moses, Abraham, and Jacob (Jacob ‘wrestled’ with God; it seems likely there was a conversation of some sort involved — at least by implication). But God says nothing at all to his own son? In fact, it is not mentioned in any gospel that God spoke directly to Jesus. I’m curious as to why all four gospel writers would agree that God never spoke to his only son? In fact, at the Jordan River with John, God does NOT say, "YOU are my beloved son and in YOU I am well pleased." This seems odd. It also seems odd that Jesus would pray to his father knowing that God was not going to answer. That whole monologue to God the Father in the garden is so unlikely in its content that one has to wonder why it is even included. In John, there is no prayer in the garden. Instead we have, in John, an incredibly long winded prayer that happens before the garden scene. God does not speak to Jesus after that prayer either.
If I learned nothing else, I now know why Jimmy Olson is a character in Superman. 😎
Do we have a single direct source mentioning the existence of the socalled Q manuscript? do we have a minimum of philological evidence on it? or is it totally an invention of some people looking for their academic career? because the Evangelists -who died as saint martyrs- weren’t inspired from God, then the analogy and internal coherence of the four holy texts must be explained with a copy-and-paste from an unknown, anonymous and phantasmagoric manuscript. Is this trash science? Anyone has to believe in the divine inspiration of the Holy Scripture, wuthout taking into account people who have no single bit of love for the truth and moral credibility.
Whether Jesus was a real person or not is not that important, the question is was he the Jewish messiah, and if you determine in your own mind he is not for whatever reason you find then the gospels and the New Testament automatically become myth as well, and if you find the stories, cosmology, errors and contradictions, and failed prophecies in the Tanakh to be less than convincing, then the Old Testament is equally false, end of story, it’s all myth.
This book helped me determine whether or not Jesus fulfilled the "prophecies" in the Old Testament: "Two Witnesses: Hebrew Texts Changed By The Greek New Testament" Paperback – January 22, 2009 by Jonathan Erik Sjordal (Author)
SEP – TO – A – JINT is just as easy to pronounce as SEP – TO – LA – JINT
Please sto saying "Sepulagent"… There is NO "L" in that word!!!!!!
This is better than pizza . . . I really love a great chat over Q the Gospels . . . all that stuff. Atheists really need to rip into this.
Mans didn’t even talk about the Gospel of Q…..
if the gospels were written in the first century, why 1 Clement doesnt even mention them as scripture. He quotes like 1000 times from the old testament as scripture but not a single time from the gospels and Paul’s epistles
Jesus was a ginger…
You guys have the right approach to the Bible. It’s a fascinating old book that has great historic and cultural significance and is worthy of our best effort at understanding it in it’s own context in much the same way we do Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey. Or vintage Superman comics! It’s all about culture and people. Because of it’s antiquity and sketchy survival of much of the contemporary literature from that time it is shrouded in some degree of mystery and lends itself to several mutually excluding theories as Dr. Price pointed out.
Another very interesting video that gets into the, "how could it be" question. I’m surprised that Joseph Smith and the birth and survival of Mormonism hasn’t come up. You have a con man, a nonexistent angel, nonexistent gold plates, a nonexistent past world and people who believe all of that even when presented with the truth. The translation of the mummy text made by Joe "Convicted con Artist" Smith has now been re-translated by Egyptologists and shown to be a complete fraud. The ancient North American civilizations in the book never existed and no traces have ever been found.
The success of Christianity, with its flawed and fraud texts only requires that Saul [a.k.a. Paul] be as good a con man as Joe Smith, and that people were as gullible then as now. Fact checking then was almost impossible, still difficult in the early 19th Century, but now people can still be conned, even by people as dumb as Paula White and as crazy as Alex Jones, when facts can be checked within minutes.
As a matter of fact, there were people in the ancient world like Lucian of Samosata, who exposed frauds like the serpent god Lycon. Today frauds like Benny Hinn are exposed and their followers just continue to believe.
Shit what are yall smoking? The answers really aren’t that hard to figure out.
It was very interesting to see Dr Bob describe opposition to the Q hypothesis as a kind of canonical apologetics. I always think of the Q hypothesis itself as a type of Christian apologetics because the assumption is that all the gospel stories must have had sources. They couldn’t have just made anything up, right?
Philo’s new ideas were later on something Marc(ian) could really sink his quill into. As new as the letter J. Clearly Greek lineage trying to muscle those Law keeping know-it-alls off the scene. This kind of resentment still goes on among secular Jews today in regards to Rabbis. It’s Sinai vrs loopholes and smiles. We must remind ourselves that when Ezra went back to restore the Jewish state only 42000 joined in the new exodus out of Babylon. Will we ever come to fully understand the thinking of the Jews who remained in Babylon, Persia, Syria and Egypt? With the very advent of the Prophets how the Law was being discussed, debated and held under scrutiny was already getting kicked into high gear. Isn’t it likely however that those less astute Jews unfamiliar with the rigors and disciplines of Midrash or even the aleph bet, were more prone to spiritual emotional suggestions and various foreign religions surrounding them? Transformed by default it you will. And if the various elements, parallels with other belief systems, and overwrites that made up the gospels isn’t in line with the spirit of the artistry demonstrated in the Alexandrian spirit, I don’t know what is. The mix and match attitude can even be seen by some of the sculptures preserved from there and then. Half Roman and half Egyptian dressed figures. In an atmosphere like that no wonder the surviving Torah Jews went on to make the decision to start hard copying a Talmud. I imagine after seeing such a devastating event take place they figured they better preserve as much as they could in this mad wave of newly developing replacement theologies. I imagine around that time Judaism was probably wondering if the creation of the Septuagint was such a great idea after all.
Don’t sweat the word, Derek. Your pronuncification sounds "lagint" to me!
Caesar’s Messiah is a great documentary re: Pro-Roman
Good one!
Instead of giving sufficient thought and study concern whether Jesus, the Christ, was a real person, give sufficient thought and study as to how you two can help mankind feed, clothe and shelter fellow human beings. Help bring peace for fellow humans, medical care, education, solar energy to majority of people, clean and free water. These causes are of the utmost importance. Do any of you consume alcohol to make you more relaxed and feel better? Allow people to exercise their free will to practice their worship of Jesus or the deity of choice as it makes them feel good. Food for thought eh Dr. Price?
wtf were you saying at about 27 minutes? You said something interesting but it broke up.
You need to invite Mark Goodacre from Duke University onto the show to talk about Q because I think he makes the best case against it. Goodacre is also skeptical concerning the standard criteria most scholars use to determine what they think is authentic Jesus material and what’s not.
Sept two ah gent. Repeat.
I’m not making fun. I have no issues with words like Saturday myself.
Now i kinda feel like a dick. It was playing with the best intentions. Love your show. It’s quickly become one of my favorites lately. Cheers, mate!
Yes, I’m saying Septulagint & yes I know how it’s supposed to be pronounced and how to spell it. I don’t give a shit, it’s easier for me to pronounce it this way. 😁
Hi Derek, you think it might be nice to do research on the Ebionites who might have been the original Jewish movement of Jesus, to get their views and which of their views might be the original of Jesus?
"Not just merely dead, most _sincerely_ dead!" And no, Bob, that’s not Frankenstein and you know it… That’s the creature _made by_ Frankenstein.
Thanks Dr. Price..!!! I do not miss a MythVision podcast when I know your the guest..!!!
I have nearly all your books… and have 100’s of hours listening, and learning so much from your podcasts, debates and lectures…!!!
And of course thanks Derek..!!! 😊
Munchkins….Price is hillarious
Adam is reason Eve is feeling the snake is the kundalini energy spiraling up the spine
Nice.
I don’t buy the mythicist position – too indoctrinated by Bart Ehrman I suspect. but I love listening to someone as well read as Bob Price. I don;t think its particularly important whether Jesus was historical or not, Christianity is a thing whatever.
Would you try to get Jonathan Welton on? Ask him about his spiritual experiences, if he comes on.
https://youtu.be/tMp8p1qYkxA
Thank you for speaking up about the abrahamic LIE!
Why doesn’t anyone mention the Dead Sea Scrolls? What about the "Messianic Hymns" that were discovered among the Qumran library? Many scholars including myself believe that the documents commonly referred to as "The Self Glorification Hymns" are in actuality the autobiographical accounts of the so-called "Teacher of Righteousness" the supreme leader of the "Qumran Sect" about hundred years before the time of Jesus. These manuscripts suggest that for a short period of time members of the Qumran sect actually believed that an age of redemption had arrived, a golden age in which all evil was vanquished and only goodness prevailed. Unfortunately, this sense of divine satisfaction was short lived, for by the year 4bc their beloved "Teacher of Righteousness" had been tortured and killed by Roman soldiers. To add insult to injury, they left his body out in the street to rot for 3 days like a common criminal before he could be buried. Upon witnessing their beloved leader being tortured and brutalized and left out for dead, the sheer level of shock and disbelief among the remaining members of the Qumran sect are best depicted by the renowned scholar Gershom Scholem: " For the 1st time, a contradiction appeared between the two levels of the drama of redemption, that of the subjective experience on the one hand, and objective historical facts on the other……Above all, the "believers", those who remained loyal to the inward experience, were compelled to ask themselves a simple question…. What could be the value of a historical reality that proved to be so bitterly disappointing, and how might it be related to the hopes it had betrayed."
I love the "Jimmy Olsen" analogy. Does this guy know how to explain the Bible or what?! He really is one of a kind, thank ‘god’ for him.
Just slammed the like button. No. 53. Dig it.
*PAGAN CHRISTIANITY IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE RELIGION OF FATHER ABRAHAM.*
*Christian Pagans attached their GREEK pagan gospels to the HEBREW Torah to try and validate their GREEK pagan religion at the expense of the children of father Abraham.*